This is such a beautiful shot of SPN’s 3 leads, but have you ever sat and thought about how much Baby symbolizes Sam to Dean?
I realize it’s just a head canon of mine, but I don’t need to go very far out of canon to see it. Also, Sam and Baby don’t parallel each other all the time, but sometimes they do very closely. Lets have a look, shall we?
Sam and Baby are the same “style” Dean isnt driving around in a pretty little sports car, which could subconsciously symbolize a sexy woman to him, instead he drives around in this big, strong, dark, gas guzzler that can carry around bodies, monsters, and weapons. She is fast and kicks ass, and can take a big beating and keep on going. Just like Sam.
Dean will do anything to save either. In the beginning of S2, Baby had been smashed to smitherenes by the truck, and while Dean was in the hospital, Bobby told Sam there was nothing left of the car to save, and Sam told him that if there was any single salvagable part left of the car, Dean would want to save her. I know we all know he feels the same about Sam.
I have seen several posts about demisexual!Cas or asexual!Cas but none of them go really far into the meta behind this reading. Unlike Dean’s sexuality, Castiel’s seems to be fairly less talked about. One reason for this is Cas’s non-human nature. This makes me and others hesitant to give Cas human labels. I am comfortable doing so because Cas regardless of what he is, he is written by humans that apply human experiences to their characters. Humans have a human bias so all characters that they write regardless of species will have human traits. Often this means that they have a sexuality too. Also, labels are not always confining. I find the definition of asexual broad enough that it can apply to non-humans as well. As many people who are LGBTQ+ know there is something freeing about finding a term that they relate to.
Asexuality – the lack of sexual attraction to others, or low or absent interest in or desire for sexual activity.
DEAN Well. Last night on earth. What are your plans? CASTIEL I just thought I’d sit here quietly. DEAN Come on, anything? Booze, women? CASTIEL looks at DEAN and away, uncomfortable. DEAN You have been with women before. Right? Or an angel, at least? CASTIEL rubs the back of his neck. DEAN You mean to tell me you’ve never been up there doing a little cloud-seeding? CASTIEL Look, I’ve never had occasion, okay?
Cas is clearly uncomfortable here and I don’t think it’s because he is some shrinking violet about sex. He just isn’t interested and Dean pursuing the matter makes him more and more understandably uncomfortable. Even though this is an older episode, this same uncomfortableness also came up with Hannah.
CASTIEL What are you doing? HANNAH I’m taking a shower. CASTIEL Um…We don’t need to shower. HANNAH I know. [Hannah looks confused by Castiel’s reaction] Are you –Does this bother you? CASTIEL Bothered? I…I’m not. HANNAH [Hannah smirks] Good.
Hannah was interested in Cas. When Cas was not interested in her in this way. Cas is no longer a virgin in this scene so the writers were not trying to write Cas as some prudish virgin, yet his reaction is very similar to that of when he was a virgin. I believe this is because Castiel isn’t uncomfortable with the idea of sex but is uncomfortable in these two situations because of the situation itself. People are trying to get an allosexual reaction from someone who is simply not interested in these two situations.
Demisexual – a person who does not experience sexual attraction unless they form a strong emotional connection with someone.
MEG I miss the simplicity. I was bad. You were good. Life was easier. Now it’s all so messy. I’m kind of good, which sucks. And you’re kind of bad – which is actually all manner of hot. We survive this… I’m gonna order some pizza and we’re gonna move some furniture around. You understand? CASTIEL No, I-I – [MEG smiles suggestively] wait – actually… Yes, I –
This doesn’t mean that Cas isn’t interested in sex at all. On the contrary, Cas seems to be demisexual or very close to it. Asexuality is a spectrum from Aces that don’t want any sex to allosexuals (people who are not asexual). There are certain situations that Cas has to be in to be ‘ok’ with sex. One of which was when Meg propositioned him. At this point, they know each other very well and Meg makes sure that Cas is in his right mind before asking. She also makes sure that Cas understood the question. This all leads me to suspect that Cas is more demisexual or grey-ace because this is someone he knows very well and he is ok with having sex with her. Castiel also knew Hannah very well but the difference is that Cas did not see Hannah in a sexual way but as only a friend.
The first time we see Cas in a sexual situation is when he goes to the brothel with Dean. Cas is very uncomfortable there. It is implied that this is simply because he is a virgin but I don’t like this implication that all virgins are prudes. I think Cas just genuinely does not want to be there and does not really want to have sex. Not because he is a virgin but because he falls somewhere on the asexual spectrum. Cas does something really interesting when he meets Chasity. He reads her mind. We know this because he learns facts about her past that she did not share with Cas verbally. Why would Cas do this? and Why was this his first reaction to being in a sexual situation? I think he wanted to get to know her better. He needed to know her before having sex with her.
CASTIEL: It’s very complex. DEAN: Mm-hmm. CASTIEL: If the pizza man truly loves this babysitter, why does he keep slapping her rear? Perhaps she’s done something wrong. DEAN: You’re watching porn? Why? CASTIEL: It was there.
Like I said Cas is not a blushing shrinking violet even though he is a virgin. It’s the whole situation of Dean trying to get Cas to do something he does not want to do. That is what makes Cas uncomfortable in 5.03 at the brothel, not the sex. Cas has shown a curiosity towards sex more than being uncomfortable with it. Even in 10.07 when Cas is bothered by Hannah’s nudity this is more because he knows that Hannah has feelings for him that he doesn’t share then the nudity itself.
So why isn’t Castiel uncomfortable when Meg kisses him in 6.10? Before he knew Meg very well? This is because this is an example of Castiel’s curiosity. He wanted to understand what he saw in the porn he was watching. So when given the opportunity, he acted part of it out.
MEG: What was that? CASTIEL: I learned that from the pizza man.
Many asexuals will put themselves in a sexual situation for a similar reason. Even though we may not experience sexual attraction does not mean that we are not curious about what all the hype is about surrounding sex. For example, I myself made out with a random stranger just to try it. It’s part of why I identify as demisexual. Just because Cas kissed Meg and also when he had sex with April, doesn’t mean that he was attracted to them. both of these instances were times when Cas was experimenting with sex.
CASTIEL Yes, there’s more to humanity than survival. You… look for purpose, and you must not be defeated by anger or despair. Or hedonism, for that matter. DEAN Where does hedonism come into it? CASTIEL Well, my time with April was very educational. SAM Yeah. I mean, I would think that getting killed is something. CASTIEL And having sex.
Cas clearly saw having sex as part of being human. This is why I think it is important to label Castiel’s sexuality. Just because you are not interested in sex does not make you inhuman. Yes, Cas sees the situation with April in the wrong light but that doesn’t mean we can’t use his reactions to it to gauge what he was thinking. I think he wanted to try sex just because he was human and he saw having sex as part of the human experience. His motivations had little to do with April herself. Unfortunately, I think Cas’s aloofness about sex prevents him from seeing what April did as rape.
Hopefully, this helps put some more light on Cas’s sexuality and shows the great example of asexuality that Cas is.
I tagged some people who I thought may like to read about demisexual Castiel
I love this meta! Great examples and quotes all. I hope it’s okay if I comment on a couple of things.
Sex as a Human Experience
I can see why Cas might think this – Dean is his role model for humanity, and Dean has quite a bit of sex. Dean tries to get Cas to have sex, too, and behaves like it’s a shame for somebody to die a virgin, so you can see how Cas would be curious about it all. Anna, who was Cas’s superior in the past, also cut out her grace and fell to go do things like have sex, so I’m sure that adds to the “this is something great that people are willing to do risky things for” implication.
Cas’s Perspective of Sexuality
Maybe Cas thinks from his own experience that angels in general are asexual. I’m ace myself, and I didn’t realize my perspective of sex and desire was not typical for a LONG time. Since Cas is just learning about his sexuality during the show (the scenes with porn, April, Meg, etc), it seems reasonable that he might take his own perspective as the baseline and think other angels regard sex the same way he does. Cas is an unusual angel, though, and I think this is another example of him standing out from the others.
Sex and Angels
It’s underscored with various examples that asexuality is NOT an angel trait in general. Some examples of other angels and sexual situations:
Hannah was physically attracted to Cas
Balthazar went and had a twelve-way first chance he got
Gabriel went and filmed porn starring himself
Nephilim Jane’s angel parent must have been interested in sex enough to have it and conceive her
Naomi and Crowley were past lovers
Akobel and Lily Sunder were assumed to have conceived a nephilim together, so they must have been having sex
Abner adopted his vessel’s family and took on the role of husband and father (this one COULD remain asexual, but they didn’t particularly imply that it was)
I’m sure there are more but you get the idea. There’s plenty of evidence that angels can feel sexual desire and that many have acted on it, forbidden or not.
Despite being the angel who has spent probably the most time around humans, and having Dean “Mr. Right Now” Winchester as a role model, Castiel seems less inclined to do anything sexual than most other angels. Ace!Cas is a very believable reading of what the show gives us about him.
These are all wonderful additions! I love when people comment on stuff because most of the time I feel like I am speaking to the void. I love that you used the examples of other angels having sex besides Cas that was such a great addition to this.
I was thinking about making a sequel to this because I kinda forgot about Daphne Allen. She was Castiel’s “wife” in season 7 and like you pointed out with the angel Abner it’s not clear whether or not that relationship included sex. Going by their slightly awkward interactions though, I think it is possible that that relationship whatever it was did not include sex. Especially when you factor in Castiel’s reactions to sex from season 9 it seems like Cas didn’t have sex until then.
Thank you, I’m happy my reply contributed something here! It would be good to discuss Daphne, and may I also suggest Cas’s manager Nora while he was human and working at the Gas N Sip? Dean assumed there was interest in sex there, and Cas thought she was asking him on a date until it was revealed that she needed a babysitter. Nora seemed completely oblivious to the idea that Cas might be interested in a date, though. I’m curious about your thoughts on that!
[Part 2] Rationally I see Destiel because 1. I don’t think the world is ready for canon incest on TV. and 2. Dean wasn’t actually there when Sam died, he didn’t really “see” him die… The last time he actually SAW Sam die was at the end of season 5… On the other hand Dean actually saw Cas die in season 9 a bit more resent. On the other hand I see Wincest there ‘cause emotionally that line makes way more sense for Sam because of the contents of the episode,So I’m just here going back and forth.
Okay, let’s have a level conversation here, because I shall respect that you came to me rather politely and that really does count in my book! I rather like level headed Destiel shippers, and I’m sure such shippers (who are NOT Destiehellers) can appreciate and respect a level headed Wincest shipper. We’re all one big family.
So!
Shippers love their fanon and ‘ideas’, but let’s take off our shipper goggles here and via doing that, right out the gate, let’s make one thing endlessly clear, yes?
Dean is straight. That’s a level of pure canon that neither you nor I can ‘change’ just because we ‘wish’ or ‘think’ it would/could be different…because it’s not different. He’s straight, and we can’t look at someone stating their sexuality point blank in our faces and go all ‘lol you’re not really gay/straight/bi, be honest’, that’s not how it works. You can’t do that to somebody in real life, and you can’t do that to a canon character. If someone says they’re gay or bi, they’re gay or bi. If someone says they’re straight, they’re straight, and we have to R-E-S-P-E-C-T that. So again, right out the gate, shipper goggles OFF. Dean. Straight. Canon. Canon on screen, canon per the writers, canon per Jensen. Dean… Is straight as hell. Let’s put that at the forefront of everything else I’ll type from here on out on this reply, because at the end of the day we’re talking about what that scene on SCREEN literally meant, not what we WISH it meant.
Destiel isn’t (and will never be) Canon, and Wincest (in the incestuous sense) isn’t and will never be Canon. Can we mutually agree on that because neither of us is delusional enough to insist otherwise? Yes? Wonderful! Moving on—-
Now that we (and the show) have established that Dean is straight, then from there it’s literally obvious that no one is about to see incest happen anytime soon before our very eyes on a cable television show. Let’s establish something else, yes? Loving someone does not mean you love them ‘romantically’. You can love your best friend, you can love your parents, you can love your siblings, and it can be purely platonic. You can also very much love your FAMILY more than you love your friends.
Castiel is Dean’s friend (again, reference back to the whole Dean is straight thing, Destiel won’t be canon any more than incest ever will on screen).
Sam is Dean’s family. And not just his family, but literally his ‘purpose’ in life: his reason for existing. “Look out for Sammy, boy!”
Now then, since we’ve established that Dean is canonically straight, and have also established that love doesn’t have to mean ‘romantic’ love, let’s look at the line from the show about ‘the man you love dying’, and how there is no ‘normal’ after that, and from there take a closer look at Dean’s reaction to Cas and Sam’s various deaths over the course of the show.
Cas has died before. Cas has died many times, actually, and when he’s died? Just like it would if you lost your own friend, it hits Dean enough to be a little damp eyed (maybe a lone man tear) and hey, one time he even kept the trench coat as a memento. But has Dean moved on? Yes. Has Dean tried to commit suicide because he simply can’t survive with the thought of Cas being dead? No. Has he tried to beg Death or Demons/Angels to trade his life for Castiel’s? No. Has he ceased to be a fully functioning human being and folded in on himself in despair? …No. Not once. Not even a little.
Conversely, let’s look to Sam. Much like Cas, Sam has also died before. Many times. And what happens every..single..time Sam dies? In canon, on screen, with canon proof to back it up, Dean loses his shit. From the Croatoan episode in S2 when Dean makes it clear he will shoot himself in the head if Sam turns into a Croat Zombie, all the way to s11 ep 17 Red Meat, Dean has shown that he literally cannot and (except for the one time he promised Sam otherwise) refuses to even TRY tofunction with Sam dead. He folds in on himself, becomes a shell of a man, craving either to die or to sacrifice his life and last breath just so Sam will live. There is no in between for him.
And that, my dear Anon, platonic as it is on screen in canon, is love. A platonic love, but LOVE. A love so deep and condependantly unparalleled that to even suggest that Dean thought of Castiel when she talked about ‘there being no normal after the man you love dies’…makes zero sense what so ever.
Cas dies, it hits Dean just as hard as watching Kevin or Charlie die does, but in the end (as when any one of his friends die) Dean moves on. It might hurt, and sometimes it hurts really badly, but he moves on and continues to live his life just fine. But when Sam dies? DEAN dies inside as a result and his actions show it again, and again, and again, and again over the entire course of the show.
There is no death, in ANY universe, that could send Dean into a Suicidal Spiral the way Sam dying does to Dean.
Dean is straight. But Dean loves his baby brother more than any other being in the universe, and to suggest otherwise (again, in CANON, with shipper goggles off), makes zero sense. Dean has never, and will never, put anything before Sam. He has never chosen Cas over Sam, would never choose Cas’s life over Sam’s life, Dean would let the world BURN to ashes if it meant Sam getting to live and the writers, creator, and J2 themselves have all emphasized how endlessly canon that fact is.
Incest has nothing to do with this conversation at all. We have to put aside our Shipper preferences, put aside Shipper goggles, and acknowledge what is real on the show PERIOD… Because to say ‘otherwise’, just makes the rest of the world squint their eyes at you, and wonder what show you’re even watching, you feel me?
Dean is straight. Cas is his friend. Sam is his brother. If Cas had to die just so that Sam would live, Cas would be six feet under in Dean’s book, and Dean would move on. That’s canon, and you just have to look to Benny for proof of that. Dean’s BEST friend at the time, and tears in Dean’s grief filled eyes didn’t stop him from whacking the Vampire’s head off just so Sammy would have a chance at life, and then moving on with his life just fine without Benny.
When Dean thinks of the ‘man he loves’ dying, and how there would be no ‘normal’ after said man dying… No moving on, no will to live, etc? That person for Dean is and will forever BE Sam Winchester. His baby brother and his very reason for existing, his life’s purpose. There is no Dean without Sam. That’s canon. Just like Sam and Dean are canon soulmates. No shipping needed for it to be true.
Karate, SPN Demonic Octopus Guardian 